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Date:	12/28/99 10:42:15 AM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Tuesday, December 28 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1592<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Drawing Program<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1590<BR>
Re: Drawing Program - longish<BR>
Re: Passengers From Hell<BR>
Re: Ethnic confusion<BR>
Re: Purina etc.<BR>
Re: Purina etc.<BR>
RE: Purina, etc.<BR>
Re: Purine etc.<BR>
Chimps<BR>
Re: Purina, etc.<BR>
Re: Keyboard Kills Since 20 Oct 99<BR>
Re: Re Image Formats<BR>
Re: Purina etc.<BR>
re: Vilani Elvis<BR>
Kids will eat anything... OT sorta<BR>
Re: Purina, etc.<BR>
Subject: Re: Vilani Elvis<BR>
Re: Purina etc.<BR>
Keyboard Kills<BR>
Re: Vilani Elvis<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 09:37:02 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Drawing Program<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 27 Dec 1999, Jason T. Barnabas wrote:<BR>
 <BR>
> My experience is that .jpg sucks for most pictures.<BR>
> Blonds usually look sun-burned, images blur together at<BR>
> the edges, etc.<BR>
<BR>
Then your experience is with jpeg's that are over compressed, or you are<BR>
using 256 color mode to view them. Jpeg's are a 24-bit format, and look<BR>
really bad in 256 colors.<BR>
<BR>
Properly compressed jpegs are quite good and hard to tell from<BR>
uncompressed photographs. Most software that creates jpegs has a<BR>
compression value that you set when saving them originally. (In photoshop<BR>
it's a slider from 1 to 10, with a few intermdeiate stops between whole<BR>
numbers.) Even the 'highest quality' settings reduce file sizes quite a<BR>
bit, without significantly altering the percieved quality.  Still, given<BR>
that the original files are usually _huge_, most people crank the<BR>
compression way up to get the size down, and quality suffers quite a bit.<BR>
<BR>
In my experience I rarely set the compression lower than 8 or 9 (highest);<BR>
this gets an average 800x600 2-3 meg picture down to 100-250k with no real<BR>
visible loss of quality. That's more than most people want to use for web<BR>
purposes, so they will crank it up to 5 or 6 (Good quality) and the image<BR>
starts to suffer.<BR>
<BR>
There are other, less used compression methods that can crank giles down<BR>
to incredibly small sizes with less loss of apparent resolution, using<BR>
fractal comression techniques. Unfortunately, they're expensive, both<BR>
monetarily and computationally.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav...the next time your PC's plant that pinhead-sized AV bug on<BR>
someone, remember that a) there's a hard limit to the number of pixels you<BR>
can have at your disposal, (how many pixels _can_ dance on the head of a<BR>
pin?) and b) a harder limit to the amount of data that little thing can<BR>
transmit.<BR>
<BR>
Show them a horribly pixellated mpeg with a ton of artifacts and tell 'em<BR>
this is the results of their surveillance.<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 11:49:05 EST<BR>
From: GaryBartz@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1590<BR>
<BR>
Yes, US Citizens are bound by equity law. Folks down in La less than everyone <BR>
else, but even they are. You may be confused because equity courts have been <BR>
merged into law courts, but most trial courts have set equity powers, and <BR>
definitely if they are a general jurisdiction court.<BR>
You may be thinking about the old days, when you could only go to equity <BR>
after the law courts gave a result that screwed one side unfairly. The equity <BR>
court back then was a court of fairness.<BR>
<BR>
Gary<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/28/99 5:35:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, owner-traveller-<BR>
<BR>
digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Actually, there are two sets of laws in the uSA.  The<BR>
 oldest is called Common Law and is decended from<BR>
 English Common Law.  The second is Equity Law and is<BR>
 also derived from English Equity Law, which was<BR>
 decended from Roman Law.  A citizen is actually not<BR>
 bound by Equity Law unless s/he decides to be so<BR>
 bound.<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 09:52:43 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Drawing Program - longish<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 27 Dec 1999, Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Yes, but you see, you (and the others most likely) have had formal training<BR>
> on computers.  I have had none at all.  I had to learn on my own, so even<BR>
> this day I don't know much.  I know BASIC good but its a dead language.  I<BR>
> have Visual Basic 4.0 but it makes no sense to me at all when I try to<BR>
> program in it.<BR>
<BR>
BASIC a dead language??? HAHA, not bloody _likely_, cobber! VBasic is<BR>
still going strong, and there is a really nice implementation on the Mac<BR>
called RealBasic.<BR>
<BR>
C++ is not really a 'higher level language' (an old joke definition of C<BR>
is: 'a language with all the speed and power of assembler, with all the<BR>
ease of use and readability of assembler.' ;-), it's just that there are<BR>
better _compilers_ for C and C++.<BR>
<BR>
Look at Visual Basic thusly: like _any_ GUI oriented program, what it does<BR>
is sit around and wait for the user to do something, then fires off a<BR>
sub-routine to handle that.<BR>
<BR>
VisBasic started to enforce object orientation (even though they didn't<BR>
call it that) which is what C++ trieds to put onto C and other languages<BR>
have more or less successfully employed as well (I even saw an OO version<BR>
of _COBAL_ a while back!).<BR>
<BR>
I'd suggest one of the SAMS "Teach yourself XXX in 21 days" they have ones<BR>
for C, Perl, C++, Java, and maybe other languages; they're not half bad<BR>
for walking you through what you get in a 'formal' education. (In my case<BR>
one FORTRAN course, back in 1977, executed on punch cards) Most of what I<BR>
learned about programming I taught myself on my old Apple ][+ ;-) Now I<BR>
are a Powerbuilder, Perl, HTML and RDBMS hack! (definitely a hack...I can<BR>
get it done, but it ain't pretty, usually) All learned by diving in and<BR>
trying to make sonething work.<BR>
<BR>
And Visual Basic will make as _seamless_ a Win program as Vis C++ will.<BR>
You'll just have to upgrade it.<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 10:13:18 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Passengers From Hell<BR>
<BR>
<Snip of excellent post, sucked directly into my saved_tml folder!><BR>
<BR>
<Officer Barbrady/><BR>
Move along, here Eris. Nothing to see. Go Home!<BR>
</OB><BR>
<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
Actually Eris has inflicted^h^h^h^h treated us to several of these<BR>
already. This will only give him ideas. <sigh> maybe if we rip out all the<BR>
passenger cabins and replace them with cargo hold...;-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 09:38:43 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ethnic confusion<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 28 Dec 1999, Robert Prior wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >Also, keep in mind that after 2-3 *million* years of (genetic)<BR>
> >seperation, it's thought that humans and chimps may be interfertile.<BR>
> >Nobody's had the guts to try it, given the ethical and moral dilemmas<BR>
> >posed.<BR>
> <BR>
It would certainly be less remarkable than the fact that cats and skunks<BR>
or horses and donkeys can sometimes produce offspring.  I think that not<BR>
trying it is a matter not of guts but of taste.  Who would want to have<BR>
sex with a chimp?  I realize that someone weird might do it once if there<BR>
were no other options for getting off (they think AIDS came from green<BR>
monkeys in Africa, don't they?  I don't know, I don't work with any<BR>
virologists...) but to do it repeatedly enough to get a chance of starting<BR>
a pregnancy... who would do that?<BR>
<BR>
> As to trying to breed chimps and humans, I'm kinda surprised that no one's<BR>
> tried an in vitro fertilization, just to see what happens, if we really are<BR>
> that close. Can you give me a reference for that?  (All my sources, which<BR>
> admittedly aren't extensive, assume separate species with no interbreeding.)<BR>
> <BR>
By the era of the Far Future I bet someone's tried it.  And that the<BR>
results may be a minor race on some planet somewhere.<BR>
<BR>
I think this hasn't been tried because of the fear of public opinion.<BR>
Remember how all those conservative Christians got bent out of shape about<BR>
IVF in the very beginning, back when the LBB's were new?  And all the<BR>
restrictions on the use of human fetal tissue and unused embryos.  I think<BR>
that any research facility that tried this would be endangering itself and<BR>
its personnel.  I also think that it will never happen in any country<BR>
where research is supported by grants because there is no philanthropic<BR>
organization that will fund this and any corporation that did so would be<BR>
subject to serious questioning.  People would think they were trying to<BR>
breed slaves/supersoldiers even if they weren't.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 17:41:08 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: Purina etc.<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 28 Dec 1999 02:38:21 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard<BR>
Erickson) wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>>>>Purina Mills makes hundreds of types of Purina * Chow, mainly for zoos, <BR>
>> etc.<BR>
>>><BR>
>>>Kirsten and I have been joking for years about needing to buy Teddy Bear<BR>
>>>Chow before the angry mob of teddy bears goes beserk.<BR>
><BR>
>>  They also make Purina Bachelor Chow, but they CALL it Macaroni & Cheese...<BR>
><BR>
>Nope. Doesn't count. Mac & cheese requires *cooking*. "People chow" has<BR>
>to be edible direct from the shipping container.<BR>
><BR>
>It also has to be suitable as a long term diet (ie you have to be able<BR>
>to live on "people chow" and watere *indefinitely* without coming down<BR>
>with deficiency diseases or other nutriotion related disorders).<BR>
><BR>
>I'm certain that some world *have* something like this, and use it for<BR>
>feeding prisoners and/or welfare clients.<BR>
<BR>
People Chow is PEOPLE!!!!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
================================================================================<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson                                             j_pete@bellsouth.net<BR>
<BR>
"There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven."<BR>
                                               -Ecclesiastes 3:1<BR>
<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
GCS V 3.12 d- s:+: a- C+++ UH++$ P-- L+ E-- W++ N++ o-- K- w++++(---)$ !O M-- V-<BR>
PS-- PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X+ R+ tv+ b+++ DI++ D++ G e+ h--- r+++ y+++<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 12:40:14 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Purina etc.<BR>
<BR>
On 12/28/1999 12:41, Pete wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> People Chow is PEOPLE!!!!<BR>
<BR>
Doesn't that make it SOYLENT GREEN?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Josh<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 09:44:28 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Purina, etc.<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 28 Dec 1999, Moody, Danny M. wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > -----Original Message-----<BR>
> > From: shadow@krypton.rain.com [mailto:shadow@krypton.rain.com]<BR>
> > Some of us have joked about making a special order for "Purina Human<BR>
> > Chow" and putting some in the Hospitality Suite at cons. :-)<BR>
> <BR>
> There is an 'advertisement' in a supplement for the old FASA Star Trek RPG<BR>
> where it lists:<BR>
> <BR>
> Andorian Chow<BR>
> Vulcan Chow<BR>
> Terran Chow<BR>
> and<BR>
> Terran Chow with Cheese<BR>
> <BR>
I remember that!  But I don't remember that you could get it with cheese.<BR>
<BR>
> The last two (along with Vargr Chow) have actually appeared in my Traveller<BR>
> campaign.  You always wanted to know what those really cheap food packs<BR>
> tasted like...<BR>
> <BR>
No, I didn't.  Honest.<BR>
<BR>
> Purina Monkey Chow is readily edible by humans.<BR>
> <BR>
Yeah, but would anyone ever willingly eat it TWICE?<BR>
<BR>
LOL, Kiri  =)<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 12:49:49 EST<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Purine etc.<BR>
<BR>
>>>>Purina Mills makes hundreds of types of Purina * Chow, mainly for zoos, <BR>
>> etc.<BR>
>>><BR>
>>>Kirsten and I have been joking for years about needing to buy Teddy Bear<BR>
>>>Chow before the angry mob of teddy bears goes beserk.<BR>
><BR>
>>  They also make Purina Bachelor Chow, but they CALL it Macaroni & Cheese...<BR>
><BR>
>Nope. Doesn't count. Mac & cheese requires *cooking*. "People chow" has<BR>
>to be edible direct from the shipping container.<BR>
<BR>
 What! <takes hand out of box> You mean it isn't?!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 17:52:18 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Chimps<BR>
<BR>
I seem to remember reading that chimpanzees had been uplifted in the<BR>
TU. Does anyone else remember something about that?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 28 Dec 1999 09:38:43 -0800 (PST), Kiri Aradia Morgan<BR>
<tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>On Tue, 28 Dec 1999, Robert Prior wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> >Also, keep in mind that after 2-3 *million* years of (genetic)<BR>
>> >seperation, it's thought that humans and chimps may be interfertile.<BR>
>> >Nobody's had the guts to try it, given the ethical and moral dilemmas<BR>
>> >posed.<BR>
>> <BR>
>It would certainly be less remarkable than the fact that cats and skunks<BR>
>or horses and donkeys can sometimes produce offspring.  I think that not<BR>
>trying it is a matter not of guts but of taste.  Who would want to have<BR>
>sex with a chimp?  I realize that someone weird might do it once if there<BR>
>were no other options for getting off (they think AIDS came from green<BR>
>monkeys in Africa, don't they?  I don't know, I don't work with any<BR>
>virologists...) but to do it repeatedly enough to get a chance of starting<BR>
>a pregnancy... who would do that?<BR>
><BR>
>> As to trying to breed chimps and humans, I'm kinda surprised that no one's<BR>
>> tried an in vitro fertilization, just to see what happens, if we really are<BR>
>> that close. Can you give me a reference for that?  (All my sources, which<BR>
>> admittedly aren't extensive, assume separate species with no interbreeding.)<BR>
>> <BR>
>By the era of the Far Future I bet someone's tried it.  And that the<BR>
>results may be a minor race on some planet somewhere.<BR>
><BR>
>I think this hasn't been tried because of the fear of public opinion.<BR>
>Remember how all those conservative Christians got bent out of shape about<BR>
>IVF in the very beginning, back when the LBB's were new?  And all the<BR>
>restrictions on the use of human fetal tissue and unused embryos.  I think<BR>
>that any research facility that tried this would be endangering itself and<BR>
>its personnel.  I also think that it will never happen in any country<BR>
>where research is supported by grants because there is no philanthropic<BR>
>organization that will fund this and any corporation that did so would be<BR>
>subject to serious questioning.  People would think they were trying to<BR>
>breed slaves/supersoldiers even if they weren't.<BR>
><BR>
>Kiri  =)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
================================================================================<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson                                             j_pete@bellsouth.net<BR>
<BR>
"There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven."<BR>
                                               -Ecclesiastes 3:1<BR>
<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
GCS V 3.12 d- s:+: a- C+++ UH++$ P-- L+ E-- W++ N++ o-- K- w++++(---)$ !O M-- V-<BR>
PS-- PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X+ R+ tv+ b+++ DI++ D++ G e+ h--- r+++ y+++<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 17:59:12 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: Purina, etc.<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 28 Dec 1999 09:44:28 -0800 (PST), Kiri Aradia Morgan<BR>
<tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>> Purina Monkey Chow is readily edible by humans.<BR>
>> <BR>
>Yeah, but would anyone ever willingly eat it TWICE?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I had a friend in elementary school who loved to eat dogfood. The<BR>
supermarket in our neighborhood kept the big bags of dry dog food at<BR>
the front of the store by the exit. Sometimes these bags would be torn<BR>
and a little bit of the chow would spill out. My friend would grab a<BR>
handful on the way out and eat it like a snack on the way home. Good<BR>
lord, did his breath stink! Thank got he grew out of that phase.<BR>
<BR>
================================================================================<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson                                             j_pete@bellsouth.net<BR>
<BR>
"There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven."<BR>
                                               -Ecclesiastes 3:1<BR>
<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
GCS V 3.12 d- s:+: a- C+++ UH++$ P-- L+ E-- W++ N++ o-- K- w++++(---)$ !O M-- V-<BR>
PS-- PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X+ R+ tv+ b+++ DI++ D++ G e+ h--- r+++ y+++<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 09:54:47<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Keyboard Kills Since 20 Oct 99<BR>
<BR>
At 11:21 PM 12/27/1999 -0500, Kenji wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> 1.  Two TMLers, Kenji Schwarz and Doug Berry, have achieved Ace status<BR>
>> (five kills each, within the surveyed time frame).<BR>
><BR>
>"In the end, there can be only One..."<BR>
><BR>
>En garde!<BR>
<BR>
And despite the fact that I'm just wearing a t-shirt and jeans, I suddenly<BR>
produce a katana from my patented Gridlore Technologies hyper-sheath (Don't<BR>
go to the Gathering without one!)<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 18:11:59 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Image Formats<BR>
<BR>
>They also have the ability to "rasterize" an image for "quicker"<BR>
>display. Basicly, it's an interlace option. Every 8th(?) line is<BR>
>displayed. Then the "4th" lines "halfway" between them. Then the<BR>
>"second" lines, and finally the last pass fills in the remaining lines.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I'm sure you can interlace JPEGs these days. At least, I'm pretty sure Corel<BR>
8 has an option on the save window.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 13:14:07 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Purina etc.<BR>
<BR>
From: Pete <j_pete@bellsouth.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> People Chow is PEOPLE!!!!<BR>
<BR>
No, it's Soylent Chow that is people... PEOPLE! ;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 10:20:44 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: re: Vilani Elvis<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
<BR>
>There's apparently this Finnish Elvis fan and <BR>
>language expert who has put out at least one album of<BR>
>Elvis songs sung in Latin. <BR>
<BR>
Finland has been popularizing the use of Latin for<BR>
several years to emphasize the commonality of European<BR>
cultures, and to show that Finland itself is really<BR>
part of Europe and European culture (doubts about that<BR>
are expressed, usually in jest).<BR>
<BR>
Ob Traveller:  Your mileage may vary regarding swings<BR>
in the popularity of Old High Vilani.<BR>
<BR>
>What really got me interested, though, is that he's <BR>
>planning an album of SUMERIAN Elvis songs.<BR>
<BR>
This is pretty bizarre.  Do we have a good idea of<BR>
what Sumerian sounded like?  Was Sumerian tonal, like<BR>
Vilani?  <BR>
<BR>
>Are there any Finnish folks on the list?<BR>
<BR>
Kylla on, but I'm only half, and born and raised in<BR>
the USA, so I'll eagerly await the comments of the<BR>
Finns from Finland.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 10:21:09 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Kids will eat anything... OT sorta<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 28 Dec 1999, Pete wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On Tue, 28 Dec 1999 09:44:28 -0800 (PST), Kiri Aradia Morgan<BR>
> <tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >> Purina Monkey Chow is readily edible by humans.<BR>
> >> <BR>
> >Yeah, but would anyone ever willingly eat it TWICE?<BR>
> ><BR>
I was thinking of adults, not children.   Children love to eat anything<BR>
that they are not supposed to eat.  Read on...<BR>
<BR>
> I had a friend in elementary school who loved to eat dogfood. The<BR>
> supermarket in our neighborhood kept the big bags of dry dog food at<BR>
> the front of the store by the exit. Sometimes these bags would be torn<BR>
> and a little bit of the chow would spill out. My friend would grab a<BR>
> handful on the way out and eat it like a snack on the way home. Good<BR>
> lord, did his breath stink! Thank got he grew out of that phase.<BR>
> <BR>
I think a lot of kids do that.  I never liked dog food when I was little<BR>
but I did like cat food.  I thought it was like a meat-flavored cereal<BR>
(which it is).  I am allergic to corn, so it would make me sick if I ate<BR>
very much of it.<BR>
<BR>
However, I have never known an adult to willingly do this.<BR>
<BR>
Part of the thrill when you are little is that you know that the adults do<BR>
not want you to do this.  You are getting away with something.  It's not<BR>
actually that the stuff tastes wonderful or anything.  Probably you would<BR>
eat it only once out of curiosity, but when you saw how people reacted,<BR>
you just had to do it again.   At least that is how I felt when I was in<BR>
second grade...<BR>
<BR>
Of course, when I was a little kid I also liked to eat my uncle's MRE's,<BR>
TV dinners, and McDonalds' hamburgers.  I liked many things when I was a<BR>
small child that I now think are totally disgusting.  Cat food is not even<BR>
close to being the worst of them.  MRE's were fun to eat because we could<BR>
pretend we were soldiers or astronauts.  They didn't taste good but they<BR>
did taste good because the imagination provided its own seasoning.  McD's<BR>
was similar because it was just a fun place for kids to be.<BR>
<BR>
There is also the fact that my mother can't cook.  I mean, she really<BR>
can't cook.  Leathery steaks, dry hard pork chops, vegies straight from a<BR>
can without seasoning... and minute rice!  (I can cook Japanese style rice<BR>
on top of the stove without a rice cooker.  But I didn't learn from her!)<BR>
There are so many foods that I thought I hated until I ate them cooked by<BR>
someone other than my mother that it is just not funny.  My mother's pork<BR>
chops would frighten a shugilii.<BR>
<BR>
My father is actually a good cook, but my mother insisted that cooking was<BR>
HER job.  This may have been a contributing factor to their divorce...<BR>
<BR>
When I was a child, I actually liked school food better than home food.<BR>
So maybe it is not too surprising that I enjoyed cat food and MRE's as a<BR>
small child.  I never had a weight problem until I left home, LOL.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 10:23:57 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Purina, etc.<BR>
<BR>
>From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
<BR>
>Chequey of three, gules and argent, a slug passant <BR>
>sable.<BR>
<BR>
Doesn't it run into the color on color problem or is<BR>
sable not a color?  <BR>
<BR>
>The immediate reaction of every herald at that <BR>
> commenting meeting was "Purina Slug Chow".<BR>
<BR>
There was enough set up that I expected the punch<BR>
line, and avoided splorting, but that was a good<BR>
effort.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 10:30:08 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Subject: Re: Vilani Elvis<BR>
<BR>
>From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
<BR>
>And I thought _I_ was sick for translating "Yellow <BR>
>Submarine" into Arabic, and part of "My Way" into <BR>
>Russian<BR>
<BR>
Well, the Beatles themselves released a record in<BR>
German (although their German fans proved to prefer to<BR>
listen to them in English).  I've tried to make Yellow<BR>
Submarine work in German, but I'm not much of a poet:<BR>
<BR>
wir wohnen alle<BR>
in einem gelben Unterseeboot<BR>
einem gelben Unterseeboot<BR>
einem gelben Unterseeboot<BR>
<BR>
ob Traveller:  We don't have much of a musical<BR>
tradition in canon, which makes sense for a book-based<BR>
game.  Still, as publishing goes more to CD, it will<BR>
make sense to add an audio component.  We all know<BR>
what the Empire's theme song is from Star Wars; the<BR>
Imperium and the other powers and players ought some<BR>
day to have their own, too.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://messenger.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 18:33:04 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Purina etc.<BR>
<BR>
>>  They also make Purina Bachelor Chow, but they CALL it Macaroni &<BR>
Cheese...<BR>
><BR>
>Nope. Doesn't count. Mac & cheese requires *cooking*. "People chow" has<BR>
>to be edible direct from the shipping container.<BR>
><BR>
>It also has to be suitable as a long term diet (ie you have to be able<BR>
>to live on "people chow" and watere *indefinitely* without coming down<BR>
>with deficiency diseases or other nutriotion related disorders).<BR>
><BR>
>I'm certain that some world *have* something like this, and use it for<BR>
>feeding prisoners and/or welfare clients.<BR>
><BR>
>--<BR>
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Well, from what I understand, and I may well be wrong, aren't MRE's in<BR>
theory nutritionally balanced and edible direct from the container without<BR>
cooking.  So the US Army already has Human Chow... (probably sub-contacts to<BR>
Purina... <g>)<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond<BR>
mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk<BR>
www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/strom.html<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"To strike a man who insults you is one thing...<BR>
...To feed him MRE's is quite another!"<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 13:39:26 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
Subject: Keyboard Kills<BR>
<BR>
One thing I think we should take into account with the keyboard kills is<BR>
the ease of making the target splork.  Jesse DeGraff, IIRC, is an easy<BR>
mark :-).  While Mark Cook, at least by his own judgement, is really hard<BR>
to get and should be worth more "points".  I myself rarely drink at the<BR>
computer ("Don't use the keyboard as a coffee filter, dammit!" My sysadmin<BR>
used to say), so I'd be hard to tackle as well. Perhaps we could have<BR>
diminishing returns for multiple splorks from the same target?  Or we<BR>
could make it like one of those Safari shows: <Aussie> Na' mates, wahtch<BR>
as Oy stahlk the rare ex-ahrmy splorkah with a mix of anti-militahry<BR>
ribbin' and a good-ol' inta-specees sex joke! </Aussie> <BR>
<BR>
You know, different points for different targets?<BR>
<BR>
Just a thought...<BR>
Charles C.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 18:20:27 -0000<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Vilani Elvis<BR>
<BR>
>BTW, as far as you know, do the Elvius songs "scan" in Latin?  (In other<BR>
>words, can you sing them in the target language, to the original music?)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
That's really a matter of translating skill, jockeying phrasing around so<BR>
that the lyrics still scan. My old latin teacher had a gift for that. I<BR>
remember the class singing "Wenceslas prospicit Rex..." en masse one<BR>
Christmas.<BR>
<BR>
Ah, happy days... (I'm *allowed* to think that now - it was five years ago!)<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1592<BR>
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